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Thread: Headlight Cut Relay System - Assistance Required

  1. #1
    Baby Twin
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    Headlight Cut Relay System - Assistance Required

    Has anyone installed the Headlight Cut Relay System designed by the Triumph/Suzuki auto-electrical wiz D'Ecosse on their Gen #1 Tuono? Here is the circuit for the Suzuki '03-'04 SV650/SV1000:

    Headlight_cut_till_start_SV_03-04.jpg

    If anyone has installed this system on their Gen #1 RSV/Tuono I am needing some advice as far as adapting his circuit plan for our bikes. I've tried posting requests for assistance on the other (US) Aprilia Forum and the various FaceBook Groups, but as yet, apart from lots of views, little to no real help. Hopefully, someone on here has experience they can lend me. I have some installation ideas, but need to check them out with someone a little brighter than myself who knows the Tuono's wiring schema well


    Best from South Africa

    Deano

  2. #2
    Evil Twin hs2300's Avatar
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    looks simple enough to follow although wires and colours will be different but the functions will be the same as on the Tuono, but I have to ask Why do you need it doing?

  3. #3
    One Litre Duc Eater
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    Yes WHY ?

  4. #4
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by hs2300 View Post
    looks simple enough to follow although wires and colours will be different but the functions will be the same as on the Tuono, but I have to ask Why do you need it doing?
    My bike is wired for ASD [Automatic switch on device] headlights. Accordingly, I don't think it is a good idea to be powering the headlight while starting the big v-twin. It is better in my opinion to save the available amperes for starting and thereby put less strain on the battery and sprag clutch - the latter I am also changing as well as upgrading the Regulator/Rectifier and associated wiring. An added bonus will be saving battery power when setting the clocks etc. Cost-wise the Euro Left Dimmer (Headlight) Switch is completely out of my ballpark! I have utilized the Headlight Cut Circuit designed by D'Ecosse on my Triumph Speed III and Tiger 955i with great success. Of course with both Triumphs, they utilize an independent Starter Relay (in addition to the Starter Solenoid) as well as a Headlight Relay which cuts the headlight on starting only. I chose the Suzuki SV650 '03 '04 version of the circuit because (at least to my eye), it seems closer to the wiring on my Tuono.
    Last edited by DeanRider; August 8th, 2016 at 04:04 AM.

  5. #5
    Baby Twin
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    Hi again hs2300

    Here are the wiring questions I have with respect to implementing the the Suzuki SV650 '03 '04 Headlight Cut system:

    Headlight_cut_till_start_SV_03-04.jpg

    1. I obviously want the circuit to cut both the low (dip) and high beam. Accordingly, I was thinking of cutting the Green wire (V) as it enters the connector to the Left Dimmer Switch 13 [See Diagram below]. The two halves of the wire would then be connected to Relay 1 (#30) + Relay 2 (87) and Relay #2 #87a. What do you think?
    Capture.01.JPG

    2. With respect to the signal wire, I was thinking of taking this from the Start Button 12 = Yellow/Green (G/R) wire on Right Dimmer Switch 13 [See Diagram below]. My question concerns whether the Diode Module will interfere with this signal? Also, whether the clutch Switch connection will send a neutral back to the ECU when the clutch is operated to start the engine/change gear?

    Capture.02.JPG

    3. With respect to connecting to both wires of the clutch switch: Relay 1 #85 and Relay 2 #85. Will the Diode Module interfere in any way? [See Diagram below]. Furthermore, I assume that in order for the Headlight Cut Relays to operate correctly it will be necessary to always start the engine with the clutch lever depressed, regardless whether the bike is in or out of gear. Is this so?

    Capture.03.jpg

    If you can help me out with these issues or have any better ideas I would be most grateful to receive them!

  6. #6
    Baby Twin
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    43 views and no advice to give me or constructive comments to make guys?

  7. #7
    Baby Twin
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    Hi DeanRider, I had similar concerns re the extra load/drain on the battery when starting (particularly as I had suffered the dash reset issue after only my first ride on my recently acquired Gen1). I followed one of the suggestions made elsewhere on the forum - which is to install the switchgear from a euro-spec RSV, which has a headlight on-off switch. It didn't cost too much (less that the labour you're probably going to put into your wiring changes) and it plugs straight in to the harness with no butchering of wiring, so I saw it as a low-risk option (also had the advantage of moving the horn button to somewhere I expected it to be!). I did notice though, that while I can now turn off the headlights to reduce battery load, the 'side-lights' stay on even when the light switch is in the off-position. I haven't had a dash reset since installing the switchgear. Can't help with advice on your wiring plans though...

  8. #8
    Evil Twin hs2300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phop View Post
    Hi DeanRider, I had similar concerns re the extra load/drain on the battery when starting (particularly as I had suffered the dash reset issue after only my first ride on my recently acquired Gen1). I followed one of the suggestions made elsewhere on the forum - which is to install the switchgear from a euro-spec RSV, which has a headlight on-off switch. It didn't cost too much (less that the labour you're probably going to put into your wiring changes) and it plugs straight in to the harness with no butchering of wiring, so I saw it as a low-risk option (also had the advantage of moving the horn button to somewhere I expected it to be!). I did notice though, that while I can now turn off the headlights to reduce battery load, the 'side-lights' stay on even when the light switch is in the off-position. I haven't had a dash reset since installing the switchgear. Can't help with advice on your wiring plans though...
    This sounds like a better option TBH Dean the initial wiring looked straight forward but it got too technical for me in your last post about switching other lights etc

  9. #9
    One Litre Duc Eater Paul D's Avatar
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    Hi Dean,

    The main solution to good Gen 1 starting, every time, in my view, is:
    1) Get throttle bodies balanced.
    2) Get upgraded battery.

    Never had a problem since.

    I also swapped my left hand switch unit for an earlier Mille unit, which has the light switch installed. As stated by Phop, it's a direct plug in connector.

    Likewise, rear lights plus front pilot light stay on. But I think there is a link wire in the block under the front fairing that can be removed to enable the pilot light switch too.

    If that worried you, you could get LED rear lights and 1W CREA headlight.

    Anyway, with this set up I've never had any starting issues, and can leave bike unused several weeks without trickle charger connected, and started every time.

    However, I don't have an alarm connected, which would increase battery drain.

  10. #10
    Baby Twin
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    Thanks guys for all your inputs. Much appreciated. With some excellent technical feedback regarding the wiring diagram gained from elsewhere, I have now begun the process of sourcing locally and internationally all the bits I need. This is always a 'mission' for those of us living south of the equator on the African Continent.

    There is no doubt in my mind that ASD [Automatic switch on device] wired headlights which turn on with the ignition switch is a universal Aprilia problem, resulting in many ruined Sprag clutches (many more than say Triumph, Honda, or the later Suzuki's that have an OEM relay-driven or changeover switch 'cut while starting' feature on most of their models), and the ever-annoying dash resets. While the Euro-spec headlight on/off spec switch is a good option, it is an expensive one, especially in terms of the depressed South African Rand / US$ exchange rates and enormous shipping charges to the southern hemisphere. Additionally, it is a fun, satisfying and cost-effective project to build which offers a comprehensive and technological solution to a problem that the Aprilia factory failed to address during the manufacturing lifetime of the Gen #1 & #2 v-twins once the EU (and US?) made ASD lighting mandatory on all motorcycles.

    The failure of my Sprag Clutch and constant Dash Resets was my original motivation for looking into making this modification utilized on Triumph and Suzuki motorcycles via its originator D'Ecosse. Accordingly, I will also be replacing the Sprag Clutch (for the cheaper, yet identical Ducati item) and the OEM R/R for the Shindengen FH012 MOSFET R/R as well as putting 4 mm cable direct from the Stator and 6 mm cable from the R/R to the battery utilizing Metri-Pack 280 Connectors, the Metri-Pack 630 ATO/ATF full size blade fuseholder, and of course the bespoke Furukawa QLW 250 to the R/R. For those interested, here is the diagram I am using - also borrowed from someone I think on the AF1 Racing US-based Caponord Forum:

    Modified wiring.jpg

    For those worried about retaining the integrity of the OEM wiring loom, there is no excuse for shabby work! No butchering will take place! Instead, heavier gauge cable, Delpi Metripack connectors and fuseholders, quality heat shrink, correctly soldered and applied B-crimp 6.3 mm brass connectors and PET expandable cable braiding will be the order of the day, being definite improvements to the often poorer-quality items supplied by the factory at the behest of its inevitable bean counters, building bikes at cheaper overall costs - the famed 'Brown Connector' and 'White Barrel Connector' being two cases in point!

    Once everything is finally up and running, I'll be sure to post some appropriate feedback.

  11. #11
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by phop View Post
    Hi DeanRider, I had similar concerns re the extra load/drain on the battery when starting (particularly as I had suffered the dash reset issue after only my first ride on my recently acquired Gen1). I followed one of the suggestions made elsewhere on the forum - which is to install the switchgear from a euro-spec RSV, which has a headlight on-off switch. It didn't cost too much (less that the labour you're probably going to put into your wiring changes) and it plugs straight in to the harness with no butchering of wiring, so I saw it as a low-risk option (also had the advantage of moving the horn button to somewhere I expected it to be!). I did notice though, that while I can now turn off the headlights to reduce battery load, the 'side-lights' stay on even when the light switch is in the off-position. I haven't had a dash reset since installing the switchgear. Can't help with advice on your wiring plans though...
    I heartily agree with you regarding the misplaced horn button on the ASD spec bikes. But then again many BMW riders have more significant dual indicator switch issues to navigate . So yes, the earlier Euro-Spec switch could have been an option if I were earning UK Pounds/US Dollars/Euros and living in the Northern Hemisphere, instead of living and working in a country that is fast becoming a banana republic

    The issue of the parking/side/pilot light (and rear light/number plate light) remaining on is of little consequence due to their relatively low wattage - indeed, I have changed mine to LED versions which draw minuscule amounts of power. A similar low-wattage alternative would be to replace the central 'dip' or low beam H4 or H7 headlight globe for a low wattage LED version, but in their non-HID unfocused versions, I felt this would be self-defeating.

    Thanks again for your input and comments. Much appreciated

  12. #12
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    Hi Dean,

    The main solution to good Gen 1 starting, every time, in my view, is:
    1) Get throttle bodies balanced.
    2) Get upgraded battery.

    Never had a problem since.

    I also swapped my left hand switch unit for an earlier Mille unit, which has the light switch installed. As stated by Phop, it's a direct plug in connector.

    Likewise, rear lights plus front pilot light stay on. But I think there is a link wire in the block under the front fairing that can be removed to enable the pilot light switch too.

    If that worried you, you could get LED rear lights and 1W CREA headlight.

    Anyway, with this set up I've never had any starting issues, and can leave bike unused several weeks without trickle charger connected, and started every time.

    However, I don't have an alarm connected, which would increase battery drain.
    Thanks for your inputs, they are valuable.

    I own a Morgan Carbtune carburetor synchronizer for balancing my injectors on my Triumph Tiger 955i, so I will be following up upon your suggestion. Thank you sir!

    Morgan.jpg

    The option of an upgraded battery was addressed by the previous owner when he fitted a higher capacity (yellow-cased) Motobatt Battery which retains the same dimensions as the OEM Yuasa item. This however did not save the Sprag Clutch! Neither did a rapidly deteriorating Brown Connector and White Barrel Connector do any good to a rapidly diminishing charge rate. Fortunately I have a Gen #1 Tuono so the Stator was still mint!

    Pilot, rear lights and number plate lights are not a problem concerning power drain due to their relatively low wattage. Indeed, as a matter of course I have already installed LED versions (other than the H7 'dip' or low beam headlight globe), as indeed you also suggest.

    Ride safe, and again, many thanks
    Last edited by DeanRider; August 15th, 2016 at 08:43 AM.

  13. #13
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by hs2300 View Post
    This sounds like a better option TBH Dean the initial wiring looked straight forward but it got too technical for me in your last post about switching other lights etc
    Not a problem Sir! The issues I raised concerning wiring up the headlight cut relays have all been addressed elsewhere. Accordingly, I am now pretty confident of making a significant improvement to my Tuono and having some fun building it along the way. Once I am finished making the changes and getting everything operational, I will be sure to post up some feedback.

    Keep the shiny side up and the black stuff down

  14. #14
    Evil Twin hs2300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanRider View Post
    Not a problem Sir! The issues I raised concerning wiring up the headlight cut relays have all been addressed elsewhere. Accordingly, I am now pretty confident of making a significant improvement to my Tuono and having some fun building it along the way. Once I am finished making the changes and getting everything operational, I will be sure to post up some feedback.

    Keep the shiny side up and the black stuff down

    Respect for you Dean you are a gent

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